Usury

[Tao Jonesing]

Your Natural Laws don't apply to the make believe of finance.  Even Aristotle recognized finance as unnatural.  Hence, the natural laws don't apply.  There is no law of conservation of energy in the fantasy land of finance, so you can indeed "make something from nothing" in our world, which is ruled by finance. 

Incorrect.  Natural Laws apply to all things, including Finance.  The only reason Finance got away with bullshit for so long was because of a vast resource of energy.  Absent the energy inputs, the "laws" of Finance go right down the crapper.

RE

Really?  Your thesis is plausible for the last 150 years or so, but the 1900 that preceded them?  Not so much.  Yeah, Alexander the Great and his successors were all about exploiting oil.  (In fact, they exploited/enslaved people.  The only reason that slavery was able to end was the "vast resources of energy" of which you speak, but there is a well-known substitute.)

And I never declared any "laws" of finance.  I simply said that our world is ruled by make-believe, man-made constructs.  You can say all you want about "natural laws" (again, if you pay any attention to those who formulated the laws and what they actually say, they're all about protecting the property your Illuminati stole), but you are ruled by the make-believe as much as anybody I have ever encountered.  Money and debt disappear, and we all die.  Reminds me of that one Star Trek episode (the original series).

My guess is that what makes you miss all these obvious facts is that you believe I'm advocating for your Illuminati.  I'm not.  I am merely pointing out some obvious blind spots you have.  They're pretty huge.  But that's typical, so I'm not singling you out.

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[RE]

Really?  Your thesis is plausible for the last 150 years or so, but the 1900 that preceded them?  Not so much.

Same rules apply through all recorded history, just the energy sources were not as powerful or burned at such high rates.  It has however been an ongoing problem since Homo Sapiens gained control of fire.  Remember also that Food is an Energy resource.

My guess is that what makes you miss all these obvious facts is that you believe I'm advocating for your Illuminati.  I'm not.  I am merely pointing out some obvious blind spots you have.  They're pretty huge.  But that's typical, so I'm not singling you out.

I have blind spots?  Holy Cow, if that isn't the Pot calling the Kettle black.  You look at the world through Tao blinders that are as about as narrowly focused as anyone on this board.  Not even Ashvin with his Christian spin runs such a narrow set of arguments.  Yeesh.

RE

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[RE]

Hmmm.  I wrote a short article about how certain religions at certain points in their history got it right that usury was a prime evil of civilization and should not be allowed.  There were a few comments that retorted that one had to go past usuary to money itself.  Then it went on and on and on about how murdering large numbers of people was a paramount human moral achievement.  Wonder how that happened?

Its called Thread Hijacking El G.  I'm an expert at it. 

I probably should have split this thread way back when, but I made links all over creation to this thread for discussion, and if I split the thread now all those links will take the readers to the wrong thread.

RE

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[RE]

In my view, Morgan is concerned with the fact that, if Pitt executes Spacey right there, then the Devil has won by definition. Pitt would have abandoned God to satisfy his need for vengeance for his wife and unborn child (which, ironically, is a deadly sin). Now that I think about it, I'm not sure who fits the Orkin Man role better here, Pitt or Spacey. Pitt is only killing one truly evil person who has killed others (or perhaps one person who was inhabited by an evil spirit), but the Devil in Spacey kills a bunch of innocent people who have only committed what he considers to be sins worthy of capital punishment, as well as the wife and child just to accomplish his ultimate goal...

I don't know, tough call.

Tough Call?  OMFG.  Its this kind of insane logic that got us into this mess.

Spacey doesn't "Win" when Pitt fills him full of Lead, he LOSES.  He's DEAD.  Dead=Lose here.

Imagine if Brad hands over the Gun to Morgan, and they cuff Kevin and take him off to the Courthouse.  If this is today's world, Kevin hires the best lawyers and Walks, just like all the Banksters do.  This is Justice?  This is a good result for Brad, who had the opportunity before he foolishly hands his weapon over to asshole Morgan to send Spacey straight to fucking HELL where he belongs?

THIS is why Banksters and CEOs can go around killing not just a few folks like Kevin did, but MILLIONS of them.  They know they can GET AWAY with it because jackasses like Morgan are too namby pamby to hand out a worthwhile Punishment that fits the Crime.  The worst thing the Bankster faces is maybe a few years in a cushy Federal Pen for White Collar Scumbags.

You gotta get your head screwed on straight here Ashvin.  Kevin is a SCUMBAG who DESERVES TO DIE.  Brad did not Lose when he filled Kevin full of Lead, he WON.  It would have been a better Win if he found Kevin BEFORE his wife got decapitated, but this was the next best thing afterward.  Letting that scumbag LIVE is LOSING.

If I was St. Peter at the Pearly Gates and Brad had let Kevin live, I would slam the doors shut on him.  He does not deserve Everlasting Glory in the Kingdom of Heaven.  He had the CHANCE to Exterminate some Evil and passed it up.  This is not Everlasting Glory meritable.

Reminds me of the closing scene in "And Justice For All".  Classic Pacino.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/0oo-gF3bwFI" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/0oo-gF3bwFI</a>

RE

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[Golden Oxen]

Hmmm.  I wrote a short article about how certain religions at certain points in their history got it right that usury was a prime evil of civilization and should not be allowed.  There were a few comments that retorted that one had to go past usuary to money itself.  Then it went on and on and on about how murdering large numbers of people was a paramount human moral achievement.  Wonder how that happened?

Just amazing how some folks can "Muddy the Waters".  One has to wonder if the thread has run it's course yet, or just beginning. The Intelligentsia seem obsessed with it and could take it to places beyond the imagination of folks in the peanut gallery. Hoping here

Details Gauguin

Gauguin

Details Walden Pond

Walden Pond

it at least ends up in a quiet, violence free place. Gauguin's Tahiti would be nice, or how about a day at Walden Pond with Mr Thoreau?

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[RE]

Just amazing how some folks can "Muddy the Waters".  One has to wonder if the thread has run it's course yet, or just beginning. The Intelligentsia seem obsessed with it and could take it to places beyond the imagination of folks in the peanut gallery.

I can pretty much guarantee Ashvin will make a Comeback to both the "Play to Win" and "Justice for All" responses I made here and on TAE.  It would be seriously out of character for Watson not to do that.

I cannot predict where any of it will go of course.  Intelligentsia?  Has a negative conotation and I do not like it, but I do understand where it comes from.  Ashvin is a fucking smart guy, he knows it.  I am a fucking smart guy, I know it also.  When I play with Ashvin, it is a relatively level playing field, and that is why it is so enlightening to chat with him.

Enjoy the Show.  No idea where it will lead if anywhere, but it is damn entertaining.

RE

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[Golden Oxen]

Just amazing how some folks can "Muddy the Waters".  One has to wonder if the thread has run it's course yet, or just beginning. The Intelligentsia seem obsessed with it and could take it to places beyond the imagination of folks in the peanut gallery.

I can pretty much guarantee Ashvin will make a Comeback to both the "Play to Win" and "Justice for All" responses I made here and on TAE.  It would be seriously out of character for Watson not to do that.

I cannot predict where any of it will go of course.  Intelligentsia?  Has a negative conotation and I do not like it, but I do understand where it comes from.  Ashvin is a fucking smart guy, he knows it.  I am a fucking smart guy, I know it also.  When I play with Ashvin, it is a relatively level playing field, and that is why it is so enlightening to chat with him.

Enjoy the Show.  No idea where it will lead if anywhere, but it is damn entertaining.

RE

OK RE, Let's leave out Intelligentsia and call you the three fucking smart guys. You left out Surly, El G certainly fits in the group also but became a mere spectator in his own thread. 

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[RE]

OK RE, Let's leave out Intelligentsia and call you the three fucking smart guys. You left out Surly, El G certainly fits in the group also but became a mere spectator in his own thread. 

El G and Surly are not keeping pace on the total keyboarding here.  Both smart guys, but neither keeps pace with me or Ashvin on the keyboarding.

RE

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[Surly1]

Thanks for the compliment, GO. I play very differently from RE.

He likes to go mano-a-mano, and fire many bursts. He is the self-described fastest keyboard in the west.
Look at his prevailing meme:



Not what I like to do. I don't type as fast and probably don't think as quickly. I like to consider things, take careful aim, and fire a round with enough throwweight to take out a target.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/yfVfRUXwXJc?rel=0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/yfVfRUXwXJc?rel=0</a>

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[Surly1]

OK RE, Let's leave out Intelligentsia and call you the three fucking smart guys. You left out Surly, El G certainly fits in the group also but became a mere spectator in his own thread. 

El G and Surly are not keeping pace on the total keyboarding here.  Both smart guys, but neither keeps pace with me or Ashvin on the keyboarding.

RE

Just so you know, I have weighed in a number of times on the TAE comment discussion, which has been pretty lively. I have felt no need to repost those comments here.

The original post (mine, not EG's) ultimately describes a moral conundrum, for me and I am sure for others. I have come to recognize the absolute futility of redemptive violence; yet, when they lay hands on my family to put them on the train for the FEMA camp, what will my response be? (How I articulate the thought experiment.) I find that every recent attempt of redemptive violence devolves to either an overwhelming response of the state to crush it, or, in the absence of federal or other external control, leads to ethnic cleaning or rule of the mob. A bloody trail leading back through Rwanda, Kosovo, West Virginia, Oklahoma, the "Trail of Tears," and ultimately back to when the first band of Cro-Magnons crushed a rock through the skull of the Neanderthals they encountered.

You may find fresh grist for the mill in this. I find less.

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[Ashvin]

Tough Call?  OMFG.  Its this kind of insane logic that got us into this mess.

Spacey doesn't "Win" when Pitt fills him full of Lead, he LOSES.  He's DEAD.  Dead=Lose here.

Sorry, RE, but you totally missed the point of the reference here (perhaps because you have not even seen the movie). I specifically chose Se7en because of the obvious themes of Christian faith running through it. Kevin Spacy represents the Devil, and is possessed by one of his demonic spirits. When Pitt ends the life of Spacey, the spirit WINS... and then it simply moves on to seek another physical body in which it can undermine God. That is how it works in Judeo-Christian theology. I would not have chosen that reference if I knew we were just going to skip that plainly obvious aspect of it altogether and focus on the American legal system...

If I was St. Peter at the Pearly Gates and Brad had let Kevin live, I would slam the doors shut on him. He does not deserve Everlasting Glory in the Kingdom of Heaven. He had the CHANCE to Exterminate some Evil and passed it up. This is not Everlasting Glory meritable.

In actuality, sticking to the spirit of the reference here, God would look at Pitt and say something like... "you were tempted by the Devil to commit sin, just like Eve in the Garden, and you failed the test, just like she did. You spent an entire lifetime searching for Me and let all the fruits of your hard work slip away in that one moment of rage. Therefore, you never knew me and you must depart"

If YOU were the Ultimate Decider in Heaven, then the Judeo-Christian faith and God's plan for humanity would be rendered meaningless.... But, hey, at least people would get to play out their revenge fantasies on Earth without any spiritual consequences.

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[RE]

Tough Call?  OMFG.  Its this kind of insane logic that got us into this mess.

Spacey doesn't "Win" when Pitt fills him full of Lead, he LOSES.  He's DEAD.  Dead=Lose here.

Sorry, RE, but you totally missed the point of the reference here (perhaps because you have not even seen the movie). I specifically chose Se7en because of the obvious themes of Christian faith running through it. Kevin Spacy represents the Devil, and is possessed by one of his demonic spirits. When Pitt ends the life of Spacey, the spirit WINS... and then it simply moves on to seek another physical body in which it can undermine God. That is how it works in Judeo-Christian theology. I would not have chosen that reference if I knew we were just going to skip that plainly obvious aspect of it altogether and focus on the American legal system...

Oh Good Grief.  Watson I GOT the metaphor in the movie just from that clip.  What I am pointing out here is the whole idea is WRONG.  You have a concept that the Evil spirit of Spacey will just move on to another (relating the Christian mythology as you do).  What I am trying to tell you is that Kevin Spacey is an ASSHOLE in need of EXTERMINATION.  His existence on earth is totally counterproductive.  GET RID OF HIM!  He is a FUCKING ASSHOLE!!!

If YOU were the Ultimate Decider in Heaven, then the Judeo-Christian faith and God's plan for humanity would be rendered meaningless.... But, hey, at least people would get to play out their revenge fantasies on Earth without any spiritual consequences.

If I was in charge of the Pearly Gates, ASSHOLES like Kevin Spacey would get sent STRAIGHT TO FUCKING HELL and HEROES like Brad Pitt who pumped them full of LEAD would go STRAIGHT to Everlasting Glory in the Kingdom of Heaven.  This is MY BELIEF STRUCTURE Ashvin, and you can take the Christian Version and stick it where the Sun Don't Shine.  The one I relate is the TRUE version.  The Christian one is horseshit and the teason Bansters run roughshod over us all.

RE

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[Ashvin]

Now, speaking of the fact that Spacey's body was possessed by an evil spirit (you cannot change the movie, RE), and considering that Spacey represents the Illuminati in my reference here, I want to touch on a sensitive, yet crucial point that you seem to be missing throughout this whole spiritual strain of thought that I have been pursuing. That's not really your fault, because I never explicitly spelled it out, but have rather danced around it a bit and hoped that someone else would bring it up. Call it a Chess strategy, if you will! Above, you say:

Not even Ashvin with his Christian spin runs such a narrow set of arguments.

But you see, RE, the Judeo-Christian theology is intended to be a Theory of Everything. Therefore, by definition, it cannot possibly be a narrowly focused argument (even if you do not agree with it). That seems to be one the points you are missing here... that those of faith believe it literally explains everything that has happened and is happening today and will happen in the future. So, in that spirit, I want to ask you a question (one that I have asked briefly on DD before, but I'm sure it got lost in the shuffle of all this mess):

Why is it that the Illuminati - you know, the people you seek to exterminate with your OMMP - why is it that the highest levels of their Orders are deep into Occult/Satanic practices and use a symbolism that ranges from "esoteric" to plainly Luciferian throughout their works, whether those be book, buildings, currencies, Great Seals, TV commercials, or whatever? Do you believe this stuff occurs, and, if so, do you have an explanation for it that does not get into the realm of spirituality or spiritual warfare? I have mulled this over for quite some time, and I can think of a few possibilities, but only one or two that seem very likely. What do you (or others here) think?

PS - I am purposely keeping this strain of thought on DD for the time being, so please do not re-post it or your response over on the TAE thread.

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[RE]

Thanks for the compliment, GO. I play very differently from RE.

He likes to go mano-a-mano, and fire many bursts. He is the self-described fastest keyboard in the west.
Look at his prevailing meme:

I do not see it as a good Survival Paradigm to be Slow on the Trigger.

RE

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[el Gallinazo]

RE

Please re-title the category of El Gallinazo's Unidentified Flying Realities to Circle Jerk Central.

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows
Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows


And everybody knows that it's now or never
Everybody knows that it's me or you
And everybody knows that you live forever
Ah when you've done a line or two
Everybody knows the deal is rotten
Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton
For your ribbons and bows
And everybody knows

And everybody knows that the Plague is coming
Everybody knows that it's moving fast
Everybody knows that the naked man and woman
Are just a shining artifact of the past
Everybody knows the scene is dead
But there's gonna be a meter on your bed
That will disclose
What everybody knows

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